Wednesday, November 24, 2010

Gordon Pape in today's Star

"To this day, a few diehards continue to fight a rear-guard action in the hope that the government might have a last-minute change of heart. It won’t."
~~~~Gordon Pape

Who is Gord Pape to state our reasons for pursuing this matter? He had as much hand in covering up the Government’s lie about tax leakage as anyone, as evidenced by my discussions with him about his writings during this period. No we aren’t looking for any last minute chance of heart, but rather we want the truth about tax leakage to be known by all Canadians, which is that its a total crock of an argument advanced by fraudulent persons in the government (ie Flaherty and Carney) and blindly advanced by morons in the media (too numerous to mention)

Brent Fullard
Canadians Association of Income Trust investors/Taxpayers


Anonymous said...

Gordon Pape is too experienced to not know the truth about Income Trusts being a tax leak. Why doesn't he tell people what that leak is? Surely he must be able to explain it to the public. Go for it Gordon....BB

Brent Fullard said...


Gordon Pape, the investor advocate that he is not, found it more convenient (and less job threatening) to play completely dumb on the pivotal issue of tax leakage, preferring to focus on the trees rather then the forest, and thinking that ignorance is bliss.

Here is some of the correspondence I received from this gutless wonder on that topic:

On 2/21/07 5:36 PM, "Gordon Pape" wrote:
I am not an economist nor do I have access to Finance Department documents beyond what is made public, so I have made no comment on the tax leakage issue.

Dr Mike said...

"a change of heart"??????

First problem with that idea is that you must have a heart.

Second problem with that is that you must have a mind to change.

The Cons & JIm Flaherty have neither.

Dr Mike Popovich

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, Gordon Pape is nothing but a advertising prop for reverse mortgages and RRSP sales. He will take no stand on anything that interferes with those priorities!


Brent Fullard said...


You sure got that right!!!

Meanwhile where the hell is the CAW’s Jim Stanford on this blatant government lie about tax leakage???? As bad as Gordon Pape is/was, Jim Stanford is/was even worse as he opted to act as an explicit cheerleader for Flaherty’s fraudulent policy. By comparison, Gordon Pape was only a snake in the grass, whereas Jim Stanford was a snake in the Op Ed pages of the Globe and Mail!!!!

Kid Leduc said...

Gordon Pape has not told the truth about income trusts for a reason. And there is a reason he has refused to explain why REITs are exempt from the double taxation of retirement savings even though a REIT looks like an income trust, quacks like an income trust and flies like an income trust used to fly.

Gordon Pape has not told the truth about income trusts because nobody in the Canadian MSM wants to print that story. That's the reason, plain and simple.

Mr. Gordon, go git yourself another slice of stale bread and the rancid butter on the editor's desk.

Gordon Pape said...

Wow - what an incredible amount of nonsense. There are so many false or misleading statements on this page - starting with Mr. Fullard's original comment - that I won't even try to refute them. I just ask that anyone with an open mind go back and read some of the articles I have written since the trust decision was announced. You'll see I strongly opposed it from the beginning, very publicly and in several places including GlobeinvestorGold. But when it became apparent the government would not back down, I advised readers of my newsletters how to make the best of a bad situation. And they did, by the way. Check out my Income Investor newsletter dated today, Nov. 24, for the evidence. - GP

Brent Fullard said...

Hey Gordon:

Is this email exchange that I had with you below an accurate depiction of the logic you employed to conveniently ran away from uncovering the truth about tax leakage, saying you weren't qualified to opine on the matter of tax leakage?

If you are not qualified to opine on the matter of tax leakage, what makes you think you are qualified to opine on any matters pertaining to finance?

To argue that one would have to be a tax specialist to know whether leaving out deferred taxes in the goverment's cooked tax leakage analysis is correct or not, is the equivalent of saying either (i) you don't care or (ii) you are incapable of grasping rudimentary aspects of finance. Which is it? Or did you simply not want to rock the boat and bite the hand that feeds you, while Canadians (mostly seniors) were being ripped off based on the government's patent lie about tax leakage

On 2/21/07 5:36 PM, "Gordon Pape" wrote:
I am not an economist nor do I have access to Finance Department documents beyond what is made public, so I have made no comment on the tax leakage issue. My position is simply that retroactive legislation is undesirable and that innocent investors should not be punished for legal actions. GP

Gordon Pape
Publisher, The Income Investor, Mutual Funds Update, and the Internet Wealth Builder
Read my new book, The Retirement Time Bomb - available now through our website at 34% off

From: Brent Fullard []
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:46 PM
To: Gordon Pape
Cc: Bruce, Dennis
Subject: Re: CARP Re: Income Trusts,

You do not need to have access to Department of Finance documents, as Dennis Bruce worked with Finance last year in the “Goodale round” to develop a methodological framework for tax leakage. He is as intimate with what they do as anyone, Finance included. Dennis can tell you that Finance totally diregards all the taxes paid by RRSPs in the belief they are tax exempt when we all know they are tax deferred. . Since 31% of income trusts are held in RRSPs and the like then this glaring omission is the source of tax leakage and not income riste themselves. This is why Finance refuses to provide any accountability or transparency on this issue. One does not have to be an economist to determine if this right or wrong. This is the foundation of their retroactive legislation

What are your thoughts?


From: Gordon Pape
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:47:07 -0500
Cc: "'Bruce, Dennis'"
Subject: RE: CARP Re: Income Trusts,

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I don’t dispute [Dennis Bruce’s] findings on tax leakage – they may be perfectly correct. However, this is not my area of expertise and it is not what I write about. I publish investment newsletters, providing people with practical advice on where to put their money, based on the realities of the day. I have opposed the government action on trusts because of its impact on investors who acted legally by putting their money into securities that were not only approved by the government but which were specifically promised exemption by the Conservatives. I leave it to others to debate the pros and cons of the trust structure and tax leakage; my concern is with the inherent retroactivity in the plan and the resulting impact on personal wealth. - GP

Gordon Pape
Publisher, The Income Investor, Mutual Funds Update, and the Internet Wealth Builder
Read my new book, The Retirement Time Bomb - available now through our website at 34% off

Anonymous said...


since your here we welcome you.

CAITI is here to provide a forum for you , because the general media fails to to discuss this fraud of a decision. Deep down in your wealth of knoweledge since you provide income trust recommendations on Globeinvestor Gold. What proof of tax leakage was there after Oct 31st 2006 with your experience in recommending income investments ?
I am not an economist or an advisor just a honest tax paying Canadian income investor taking care of my personal pension.

My mom a senior is not sophisticated in the CHIP housing idea or chasing the mutual fund marketing machine. But she understood a good busniess like Sleep Country , Teranet etc..

But what happened in the end she was raped of her personal copper clad pension. Yes she has an advisor, but that aside, please provide your expertise why the decision was made ?

I repeat,....
economist aside , advisor a side what does your wealth of income investment knowledge tell you about the Conservative tax leakage claim ???


Polyian said...

Gordon...I would like your thoughts on why you are not fighting the double taxation in RRSPs that was forced upon investors portfolios which hold income trusts. Why are you not advocating a similar mechanism to the Dividend Tax Credit for RRSP's? Double Taxation of RRSPs is hardly helping people save for retirement or helping retirees make ends meet.

Bruce Benson said...

I will tell you what I think, The following were spineless:

- Gordon Pape
- Main Stream Media Employees
- Income Trust Co's knowing their
exec's would finally get to cut
distributions and pony up to the
fat exec bonus and stock options
- Canadian govt opposition

Those who controlled the whole situation:

- CON's who were bought off by the
- CCCE running the Media keeping
low life Canadians in the dark
eating bull s..t.

Laurence Hunt said...

I don't think we can count Mr. Pape an ally on this issue. Mr Ignatieff has made some statements in our favour, and perhaps our energies are better devoted to someone who may be in a position to address the issue square on. Let's not forget the role of Mark Carney in this fiasco. I will go so far as to state that we are inhabitants of the era of investor exploitation, and the attack on the income trusts was an attack on small Canadian investors in particular. When unwound, the former income trusts tend to end up in international hands - to their profit, and to the loss of hard-working Canadian taxpayers. Carney, Harper, Flaherty, and Pape are not part of the solution. They are among the exploiters, sad though it is to say so.

Loraine Lamontagne said...

J'ai pensé immédiatement à vous en lisant ceci :

Kid Leduc said...

Glad to see we have a poster who doesn't Hunt around for his words.

Laurence Hunt, add academics to your list of professional toadies. Except for the Professor Emeritus outta UBC, the vast majority of academic "experts" have turned the upside of their toast to the buttery knife of Publish-or-Get-Minced.

Anonymous said...

Hmm Gordon Pape ... why am I reminded of my father's long, long rant when his name comes up?

I once made the mistake of asking him about a share Pape had recommended ... this was over a year ago.

" Do what you want!!!!
Throughout the 80's and 90's if I had listened to Gordon Pape and followed any of his investing advice our family would have ended up in the poor house!!! There is no way in hell you or your sister would have been able to go to school. I don't think you two would have liked the Salvation Army!
Gordon Pape is in the book business, not the investment business."

Dad was right about that share ... Too bad he is out to lunch on income trusts and Manulie. Like Gordon, with income trusts they both simply gave up on the truth, accepted the tax leakage lie, refused to do their homework and both know better and should be ashamed of their positions on Income Trusts.

For now I have learned to add Gordon Pape's name to my list of "Topics of NON DISCUSSION". That list is very handy during the holidays.