Sunday, November 29, 2009

Prime Minister of Conflation, Stephen Harper

Breaking news:

Harper takes shot at opposition over torture allegations

Joanna Smith Ottawa Bureau
Toronto Star
Published 28 minutes ago

PORT OF SPAIN–Prime Minister Stephen Harper took a partisan shot at his opposition critics while touring the HMCS Quebec in Trinidad-Tobago Sunday.

"Let me just say this: living as we do, in a time when some in the political arena do not hesitate before throwing the most serious of allegations at our men and women in uniform, based on the most flimsy of evidence, remember that Canadians from coast to coast to coast are proud of you and stand behind you, and I am proud of you, and I stand beside you."

Hey Stephen, no one is accusing Canadian men and women serving in the Military (at this point) of committing any wrongdoing in the matter of potential torture of Afghan detainees. It is you and your government that is being held to account for possible wrong doing.

Stop exploiting these Canadian men and women who serve in Canada's military in a desperate attempt to shield yourself from public scrutiny, as you are deviously conflating issues to buy absolution for your obvious wrongdoing. Made obvious by the lengths to which you are going to cover this issue up, including hiding behind these very men and women who serve it the military, whose goodwill in the minds of Canadians, you are attempting to engender and exploit.

Conflation: Conflation occurs when concepts, sharing some characteristics of one another, become confused until there seems to be only a single identity — the differences appear to become lost. [1] In logic, the practice of treating two distinct concepts as if they were one does often produce error or misunderstanding — but not always — as a fusion of distinct subjects tends to obscure analysis of relationships which are emphasized by contrasts.[2]


Dr Mike said...

My God , has this guy no shame.

He has completely lost any shred of respect I had left on his behalf.

Incredible , just incredible.

Dr Mike Popovich

Tomm said...

Dr. Mike,

Please take off your sheep's outfit, sniff some smelling salts and think for yourself.

Accusing Canadian's of putting Afghan detainee's into a torture situation is EXACTLY what Colvin is accusing Canadian's in Afghanistan of doing. Why else has he make the accusations, using his presence in Afghanistan as the proof?

Even Blatchford today on Question Period (no apologist for the present government) destroyed that little fiction.

As of today, the International Red Cross has now joined David Mulroney, Colvin's boss in Afghanistan, and three on-site general's in criticizing Colvin and refuting his malicious accusations.

The Liberal's, Bloc, and NDP see this as a way to put Harper's name in the same sentence as the word torture, and that has blinded them to truth, integrity and fairness. In 2002, Lord knows what we were doing. In 2006 the Conservative's took power and at that point began the discussion about what should Canadian troops be doing with these detainee's. In 2007 we spent a pile of money to build a detention facility for the Afghan's that was easily monitored and controlled. Two year's later this crap surfaces as an attempt at partisan mud slinging.

Truly a sad state of affairs. Have you no shame?

CanadianSense said...

Another supporter backs up the three retired Generals, Mulroney against the screaming left who got played by Colvin.
Shame on the opposition who tried to score cheap points on the bodies of our sons and daughters.

“We do reserve the right to go public when all other means are exhausted,” he said. “This has not happened in Afghanistan because we have a constructive dialogue with all the relevant parties, including Canada. This constructive relationship is not one-sided. It is as good with ISAF (the International Security Assistance Force) as it is with armed opposition groups, including ethnic militias. There is a large network of people we talk to.”

Dr Mike said...

Tomm & Canadian Sense

So what are you two guys hiding from??

No Names as usual.

What`s next , hoods??

From what you are saying , it is obvious that neither of you would have any qualms about a public inquiry into this matter.

It would cost a few bucks but we could clear the air once & for all.

The Cons have wasted a 100 mil on feel good stimulus ads , so a million or two on an inquiry would be chicken feed.

Of course , blacking out documents not allowed.

Dr Mike Popovich
Rodney Ont

Cari said...

We do not blame the soldiers at all...that is only the Cons. line. The soldiers were given orders by their higher ups, so it is the Bigwigs there ,or in Ottawa that gave the orders.
I wish that Harper would grow up and stop acting like a 12 year old brat.

CanadianSense said...

We spent $ 23 million on Arar and did not question him or confirm he was tortured. How many years for that inquiry?

How much did we spend on Mulroney round 2?

For a person crying about taxpayers money cry for another $ 20 million is .....

The only people who have been hiding the decline, destroying emails is the AGW propagandists with an Agenda.

Nice try again to blame us for being consistent.

Public Inquiry

With due respect, a Commons committee is probably one of the worst forums to deal with the matter of prisoner abuse and potential Canadian complicity. Names of highly respected individuals have been dragged through the mud with no chance to defend themselves. Statements made by witnesses, including Mr. Colvin, are accepted by some and rejected by others, and the opinions of committee members are entirely predictable, depending on their political affiliation.-Lewis MacKenzie
A public inquiry would be a colossal waste of taxpayers' money. The government should put the file back into the MPCC's lap and direct all players to co-operate. The commission has the highly qualified staff necessary to get to the truth of the matter in the most cost-effective manner

So again everyone including the Red Cross don't support Colvin and the opposition "ludicrious" claims or suggestions.

CanadianSense said...

So Harper and his MP and friends went overseas and rounded up innocent farmers and butchers for torture?

You backed up Colvin and the opposition parties allegations. You keep making statements the government participated in some elaborate cover up.

The Army can not be 'exonarated' in your smears agains the government. They must be complicit is the only logical statement from Colvin and his fellow anti government stooges.

You were spoon-fed by the CBC, CTV and knee jerk reactions 2nd, 3rd hand information to blame Harper..

Check with EVERYONE else on the ground for the cover up.....

ISAF must be guilty of WAR CRIMES too.

CAITI said...

Canadian Nonsense:

My, we are getting a trifle sensitive aren't we?

CanadianSense said...

Perhaps you can join Colvin, oppostion MP and fellow Lib bloggers outside the wire and go look for those Reports and claims of torture.

He spent half a day outside the wire in seven months before returning to Canada.

You denigrate our sons and daughters and suggest we are guilty without any evidence.
A class act.

Best of luck in looking in the mirror.

Why do you think your LPOC have gone from 40.8% in 2000 to 26.3% in 2008?


CAITI said...

Canadian Nonsense:

Re: "He spent half a day outside the wire in seven months before returning to Canada."

Precisely, which is half a day longer that you. Stephen Harper and a whole lot of other people who seem paranoid about this matter being properly investigated and who are hiding behind pathetic attempts to suggest that any such investigation would put our military's reputation at stake.

If our military even has anything to do with this, as opposed to Harper and MacKay against whom these allegations are targeted, then I guess the sterling reputation of Canada's military can stand the scrutiny of review.....or can it?

Why are you so adverse to learning more about these damning charges? Without a full investigation, Harper's reputation will suffer. You more than anyone else should be demanding a full public inquiry.

And don't give me that line about "cost". Harper has pissed away more money on self promotional advertisements on his stimulus plan, than this inquiry could ever hope to spend.

CanadianSense said...

You just don't get it and never will.

The Somailia Inquiry did not help you learn any lessons.

The guys at the TOP never get the blame.

Only a moron would suggest you can smear the government without collateral damage or fallout.

Your suggestion that the our sons and daughters who have shed blood have not not been smeared is simply delusional.

Your pathetic attempt to suggest that spending $ 20-30 million to start an inquiry when we already have the expertise without a public inquiry demostrates a simple fact. Your bias.

Every single group has NOT supported the allegations from Colvin including the Red Cross.

Best of luck with your vitrolic hate for the current government in pretending you give a fig about the truth.

I am consisent a Public Inquiry will NOTHING to resolve the truth.

You have already passed judgement along with the CBC, CTV, opposition MP's and the screaming left.

Why are you ignoring our track record for public inquiries history?

Adscam did not recover our million missing did it? Any high level politians exposed?

Did the LPOC stop every inquiry and limit it's scope?

HR boondoggle, Gun Registry, Tainted Blood, APEC...
I would expect NO less making me a REALIST. Clearly you have a problem with reality and our history.

CAITI said...

Statement by Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff on comments by Prime Minister Harper
OTTAWA - Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff made the following statement in response to comments made by Prime Minister Stephen Harper aboard the HMCS Quebec, in Trinidad and Tobago, earlier today:

"Stephen Harper's comments are beneath the office of Canada's prime minister.

"To use an audience of active Canadian service men and women serving abroad  as a prop for political attacks is bad enough.  To try to hide behind the brave men and women in uniform for his own government's handling of the Afghan detainee scandal is even worse.

"Mr. Harper's performance today only underlines the need for a full public inquiry into his government's handling and apparent cover up of the detainee issue."


CAITI said...

Canadian Nonsense made this absurd comment:

"Adscam did not recover our million missing did it? Any high level politians exposed?"

No, but it did serve to hold the Liberal government of the day to account, or is holding government to account of no interest to you? Evidently not as you attempt to make the case that this Afghan detainee matter is not deserving of a public inquiry.

Think about it Canadian Nonsense, without the Gomery inquiry, Harper would never be PM, and the Liberals would never have learned an important lesson.

We are today, however paying the ultimate price for the Gomery inquiry, as we ended up with a bunch of crooks, and easily manipulated bureaucrats, worse than before?

CanadianSense said...

Clearly you drink the Liberal kool-aid.

The LPOC had 40.8% in 2000 in every single general election they lost support and other parties filled the gap.
Your "ADSCAM" point is deeply flawed and explains why only liberals believe it was ADSCAM.

A Liberal blogger with bias and blinders?

I have NEVER denied they may have been problems.

I am also being realistic in not demanding we spend $ 20 million before the other investigations are exhausted.

Your political bias?

Colvin and his reducted documents warrant $ 20 million?

Who else has come to back up his testimony?

Why in Canada are the media and opposition only asking about 2006 forward after the Liberals lost power?

Reminds me of Omar Khadr, he was in captured in 2002 and for four years were you asking the government about the "child farmer" at Gitmo?

Dr Mike said...

Canadian Sense

I have to come back to my original comment , has the PM no shame to defame people as soldier haters for opposing his views--this guy`s cut-throat tactics are unbecoming of a man in his position.

And for you to try to defend his comments while attempting to remain anonymous is even more incredulous.

No Name , no cojones , & no real belief that your viewpoint is the correct one.

Afraid for the whole world to know your name??

I guess I would be too if it was me trying to defend such an insensitive & obviously BS laden statement.

Dr Mike Popovich
Rodney Ont

PS---I will be the first one to condemn any politician if he is way off base , I don`t give a fig as to which party--the Liberals cannot be defended for any of their misadventures , the Cons their`s---it is time for partisanship to end & for real accountable gov`t to begin--the problem is that this will probably never happen in our life-time.

CanadianSense said...

The Liberals have called the Reform rednecks, bigots, racists, have played the religion card for years.

How do you think they lost the Catholic vote? Bad breath?

Legislation and mocking of "chrisitan values". If any CPC mention "God" a large number of Lib bloggers bring up attacks.

I have not 'excused' cheap shots from each side. Everyone does it.

The fact is you have ignored the "wafergate"?

Hedy Fry, Carloynn Bennet 10%, no post from you?

Every Liberal stands up and uses every issue to suggest the CPC are dividing Canada and is a unity crisis when QC is being affected.

I grew up a Rat Pack Liberal and accept cheap shots as S.O.P. did not whine back then and will not whine now when the lesson learned are being applied back to the LPOC.

We have a double standard with the media keeping the LPOC as a credible party.

CAITI said...

Dr. Mike said:

"PS---I will be the first one to condemn any politician if he is way off base , I don`t give a fig as to which party--the Liberals cannot be defended for any of their misadventures"

Ditto for me, as these politicians need to learn that they work for us, not the other way around.

Brent Fullard

Dr Mike said...

We all know that an idiot is an idiot no matter the color , blue , red , green or orange.

It`s time we cleaned house of all the unworthy people running our show.

We hire them , we pay them , we should be able to expect an honest days work & not just underbelly campaigns of smear & misinformation.

This was why I took such offense with the statement by the PM painting anyone who does not agree with him as a traitor who does not respect our troops.

That was a mean spirited low blow beneath him & anyone who defends his position is no better as they must wholeheartedly agree.

I hate this stuff---there is no place for this sort of tactic in a country as great as this defended by troops as great as our`s.

Dr Mike

Anonymous said...

Why do the liberals continue to take the defensive when responding?
Why can't they respond with, If Steven Harper and the conservatives believe that showing support for our troops is best demonstrated through the inhumane treatment of others on this planet I disagree. Inhumane treatment through torture using such techniques as water boarding and electrocution of the genital area I can say I am ashamed of how Steven Harper and the conservatives are currently and will in the future portray Canadians and this once proud and decent country as.

We are Canadians, not barbarians.

Instead the liberals respond with
Stop calling me names, Canada they called me names.


CAITI said...

Andrew Coyne of Macleans writes:

by Andrew Coyne on Monday, November 30, 2009 5:06pm - 58 Comments

Gotta go with the pack on this one — this is just trash:

Let me just say this: living as we do, in a time when some in the political arena do not hesitate before throwing the most serious of allegations at our men and women in uniform, based on the most flimsy of evidence, remember that Canadians from coast to coast to coast are proud of you and stand behind you, and I am proud of you, and I stand beside you.

That’s your prime minister talking, folks, accusing members of Parliament who raise legitimate questions about Canada’s policy on the transfer of prisoners in Afghanistan of smearing “our men and women in uniform.” There is no sense in which this is true. There is no interpretation you can give it that draws it near to the truth. It is not even close.

There are many points of uncertainty in the detainee issue, and some members of the opposition may have leapt to some conclusions about it. But not about the soldiers on the ground. No one that I am aware of has made any criticism of the soldiers who handed over the prisoners to the Afghan security services — only of those who issued the orders to do so.

Coupled with the continuing refusal to release the Colvin memos and other relevant documents — or rather their selective release, to some but not others — it makes it very hard to give the government the benefit of the doubt in this affair. Their story has become more believable, but their every action suggests that they themselves don’t believe it.